Curious

Mercury Outboard  general discussion

Curious

Postby JW in Dixie » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:04 am

General Motors, Ford Motor Co, Chrysler Motor Div, outboard motor - why do most people call the power unit "engines"?  [violin.gif]
JW in Dixie
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 1206
Images: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:33 am
Location: Huntsville, Alabama (ah, that's in Dixie, I say, Dixie, son)

Re: Curious

Postby Fingerlakeskid » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:46 am

An engine by definition uses combustion, either internal or external (steam) to create the ability to do work, while a "motor" is an electro-mechanical device (electricity). During the dawn of the automobile, when these companies were forming, the automobile earned the moniker "motorcar" and the Big Three ran with motor in their names. Mercury outboard engines??? Just doesn't sound right does it? Outboard motors!
Stan Augustine

Mark 30 tiller,  (2)Mark 55, Mark 58A (2)Merc 200 FGS, Merc 450, Merc 500.  1950 CZT Penn Yan Swift, 1957 Alumacraft FD, 1985 Larson Senza w/Merc 1150,
Fingerlakeskid
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am
Location: Horseheads NY

Re: Curious

Postby Alex from GA » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:49 pm

What he said!!!
Alex from GA
 
6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:45 pm
Location: Gainesville, GA winter in central FL

Re: Curious

Postby krazy karl » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:15 pm

Right, but somewhere, I think Wikipedia, the two terms could be used interchangeably.    :D
kk
55H, 1958 HydroSwift (looks like a 1957 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser with twin MK 55's, 2 KD4's, KF7, Seagull, QD13, Grand Prix Sport C raceboat with 40 HP Tohatsu.  Quincy, Calif
krazy karl
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Re: Curious

Postby Fingerlakeskid » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:07 am

Of course. 90% of the words in the English language have dual meaning, or nearly as many different words that mean relatively the same thing!
Stan Augustine

Mark 30 tiller,  (2)Mark 55, Mark 58A (2)Merc 200 FGS, Merc 450, Merc 500.  1950 CZT Penn Yan Swift, 1957 Alumacraft FD, 1985 Larson Senza w/Merc 1150,
Fingerlakeskid
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am
Location: Horseheads NY

Re: Curious

Postby bobvdinghyracer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:23 am

the 2 terms were taught in auto shop ,an drilled into us... also in service too ... and since then i have always felt guilty using the term motor when speaking of an engine .... tho i still do at times :oops:  :oops: ........... :lol:
7.5 9.8 s ke7 kf7 kg7  kh7  wiz10,wiz10q  wiz12,mk15  mk20s mk25s mk30,50,55,58,10a,15a,28a,200s,35twin,300,350,400,450,500,650/4,
 650/3,kg4q,kg7h kg7q ,wiz12h,wiz12q, mk25pop,30h,450q,25ss, 25xsmodh, 650/3cyl mod h, 35twin mod.16/21 25xd mod-16/21h
bobvdinghyracer
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 718
Images: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:20 am

Re: Curious

Postby Tom Brockmeyer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:12 pm

I say "engine" alot...  Trying to be correct.   I guess I'm a member of the AOECI as well as JOMS.

One thing everyone agrees on; when you rebuilt a Chevy 350 in your basement, you use an "Engine Hoist" to pull it out and an "Engine Stand" from to hold it.
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser,  Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
Tom Brockmeyer
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 4162
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 pm

Re: Curious

Postby Kiekhaefer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:06 pm

I have a stutter. Sometimes it’s not bad at all but sometimes there’s days where I cannot control it very well. There are vowel and consonant sounds that trip me up once in a white so I’ll change words up to avoid a stutter. This is a perfect example with changing motor to engine. Which in itself is funny because either sound will screw with me. LOL
John Stoltz

'59 Mark 35aE
'53 Mark 15
'60 Merc 400E
'61 Merc 700 FGS
Kiekhaefer
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Curious

Postby krazy karl » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:58 am

Then again an outboard is a propulsion unit powered by an engine. But one of my regions APBA officials calls racing outboards engines. Go figure.
kk
55H, 1958 HydroSwift (looks like a 1957 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser with twin MK 55's, 2 KD4's, KF7, Seagull, QD13, Grand Prix Sport C raceboat with 40 HP Tohatsu.  Quincy, Calif
krazy karl
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Re: Curious

Postby Fingerlakeskid » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:21 am

Another point to consider is that shortly after the turn of the century in the early 1900's there were electric powered vehicles being built and used for urban delivery. Now they would correctly be called a "motorcar"
Attachments
electric truck.jpg
electric truck.jpg (9.89 KiB) Viewed 288 times
Stan Augustine

Mark 30 tiller,  (2)Mark 55, Mark 58A (2)Merc 200 FGS, Merc 450, Merc 500.  1950 CZT Penn Yan Swift, 1957 Alumacraft FD, 1985 Larson Senza w/Merc 1150,
Fingerlakeskid
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am
Location: Horseheads NY

Re: Curious

Postby JW in Dixie » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:49 pm

Yes, Stan, I was thinking that also. However, I prefer motor. Cheers
JW in Dixie
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 1206
Images: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:33 am
Location: Huntsville, Alabama (ah, that's in Dixie, I say, Dixie, son)

Re: Curious

Postby 1500J » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:00 pm

mo·​tor | \ ˈmō-tər  \
Definition of motor (Entry 1 of 3)
1 : one that imparts motion
specifically : PRIME MOVER
2 : any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: such as
a : a small compact engine
b : internal combustion engine

especially : a gasoline engine
c : a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into mechanical energy


From Merriam-Webster. Looks like currently is is not limited to electrical power source.

Conrad
60-66-76-89-93-99
1500J
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3248
Images: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Curious

Postby 1500J » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:04 pm

engine noun
en·​gine | \ ˈen-jən  \
Definition of engine (Entry 1 of 2)
1 obsolete
a : INGENUITY
b : evil contrivance : WILE
2a : something used to effect a purpose : AGENT, INSTRUMENT
mournful and terrible engine of horror and of crime
— E. A. Poe
b : something that produces a particular and usually desirable result
engines of economic growth
3a
: a mechanical tool: such as
(1) : an instrument or machine of war
(2) obsolete : a torture implement
b : MACHINERY
c : any of various mechanical appliances —often used in combination
fire engine
4 : a machine for converting any of various forms of energy into mechanical force and motion
also : a mechanism or object that serves as an energy source
black holes may be the engines for quasars
5 : a railroad locomotive
6 : computer software that performs a fundamental function especially of a larger program

Also from Merriam-Webster.

It appears Motor and Engine are currently proper terms to describe outboards and can be used interchangeably.   Maybe in the past there was more of a distinction.  
Conrad
60-66-76-89-93-99
1500J
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3248
Images: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Curious

Postby Fingerlakeskid » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:43 pm

As was mentioned early in this post, the English language has thousands of words with dual (or more) meanings. Motor/engine same or different? Doesn't really matter.
Stan Augustine

Mark 30 tiller,  (2)Mark 55, Mark 58A (2)Merc 200 FGS, Merc 450, Merc 500.  1950 CZT Penn Yan Swift, 1957 Alumacraft FD, 1985 Larson Senza w/Merc 1150,
Fingerlakeskid
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am
Location: Horseheads NY

Re: Curious

Postby 1500J » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:04 pm

Fingerlakeskid wrote:As was mentioned early in this post, the English language has thousands of words with dual (or more) meanings. Motor/engine same or different? Doesn't really matter.

*I understand.

An engine by definition uses combustion, either internal or external (steam) to create the ability to do work, while a "motor" is an electro-mechanical device (electricity).

*your very first post puts them into two separate categories.  very simply you said if you don't mind me shortening your words.: "  Engine = Internal Combustion  and Motor = Electric."

Does it matter?  Not to me  :-) , but the the question has still been asked.

Today it appears Engine and Motor are pretty  much universal according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.   Was this just an evolution over time?

Now a good question to ask would be.....  were the two terms expressly different in the past?  If you could look at a 1920 version of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary would the two terms be exclusive to Combustion vs Electric like your first post implies?

My gut says yes, that they evolved to their current similar status.  But don't know.

Conrad
60-66-76-89-93-99
1500J
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3248
Images: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Curious

Postby Fingerlakeskid » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:10 pm

I'm old school, I'll stick to what I was taught in my automotive courses in college. If evolution has changed the meanings it's because people don't care if what they say is correct anymore. As long as it's close enough it's ok with them. At some point it makes it into the next edition of the dictionary - evolution.
Stan Augustine

Mark 30 tiller,  (2)Mark 55, Mark 58A (2)Merc 200 FGS, Merc 450, Merc 500.  1950 CZT Penn Yan Swift, 1957 Alumacraft FD, 1985 Larson Senza w/Merc 1150,
Fingerlakeskid
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am
Location: Horseheads NY

Re: Curious

Postby Yellowjacket » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:28 am

Webster is only giving you the colloquial usage of the term.  You can always trust an English major to screw up something that requires a real engineering explanation..

The proper definition of an "engine" is a device that converts thermal energy (heat) in to power.  That is why we have steam engines, sterling engines, turbine engines, diesel engines, and internal combustion engines and of course the term "heat engine" is the basis of all this.  Combustion isn't necessary to have an engine, but the process of turning heat energy into work is done by an engine.

Motors turn energy into motion, but if it isn't a heat engine it's a motor.  We can talk about electric motors, and spring motors. but obviously these aren't engines since heat isn't involved.

Automobiles have used the term "motor" for engine interchangeably for the last 100 or more years.   Motor racing, motor boating have applied to cars and boats incorrectly, but in the common parlance so it has become part of the vernacular, even though incorrectly..  As a national champ Formula V racer friend of mine used to say "they call it motor racing because the motor you bring determines who wins the race"...   And as Jercky Stewart used to say "tis a fine day for a motor race"...  And now that we have electric cars and electric car races, we do have "motor racing" now (although it's boring) with real motors...
Yellowjacket
 
6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
 
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: Curious

Postby 1500J » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:33 am

Don’t get me wrong , I like to use engine for heat power and motor for electric.  

There is a reason that Heat Engine and Engine have different definitions. A Heat Engine is an Engine- but an Engine is not always a Heat Engine by definition.
60-66-76-89-93-99
1500J
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 3248
Images: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Curious

Postby creekrunner » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:52 pm

wow!  .......it's been a LONG winter....... icon_crazy.gif
Experience is a wonderful thing...........it enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.....
Buzz Lindberg.....sometimes you win...sometimes you learn
Cavendish, Vermont   member: JOM's, APBA, SSOA, AOMCI
creekrunner
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 1407
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:38 pm
Location: Cavendish, Vermont land of few lakes

Re: Curious

Postby zul8tr » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:27 pm

Yes it is a long winter up there, already been on the water down here icon_thumbup.gif

I use the the KISS approach:
If starts sometimes Yes sometimes No it's an Engine [fingerscrossed.gif]  [violin.gif]
If it usually starts all the time  it's a electric Motor :arrow:
:lol:  :wink:
SW Orlando, Fla
Fast Race Boats & cars

"If all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion," George Bernard Shaw
"Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin
zul8tr
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:26 pm
Location: SW Orlando, Fl


Return to John's Old Merc "General Forum"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest